That Would Be Art Linkletter, Of Course
Well, it's that Jesus time of year again, which means Jackson's been busy telling people he doesn't believe in God. You'd be amazed how easy it is to ruffle a five-year-old's feathers with that kind of information. Several of his classmates have told him "If you don't believe in God you are going to DIE/go to hell/get a horrible disease/get hit by a car." Others are merely rendered mute with incomprehension.
For a while he was telling other kids that God was stupid, so it became necessary to intervene. But you can tell he enjoys the provocation. He told his classmate Mitchell, for example, that God is just a story made up by people a long time ago to explain things they didn't understand. This is practically verbatim what I told him one night as we were reading stories in bed. Naturally, Mitchell countered with something he no doubt got from his parents: "God made everything." To which Jackson responded with a hearty "Nu-uh," and Mitchell countered with an equally fervent, "He did so,"and then the disagreement devolved into a relentless exchange of monosyallables that no doubt nicely punctuated their brisk game of tetherball. That's how Jackson tells it, anyhow.
After he told me about his exchange with Mitchell I said, "Well, for a while there you were telling people that you believed in Science. How do they react to that?"
"Okay," he said, "but you know, from now on I'm just going to tell them that I believe in Art."
For a while he was telling other kids that God was stupid, so it became necessary to intervene. But you can tell he enjoys the provocation. He told his classmate Mitchell, for example, that God is just a story made up by people a long time ago to explain things they didn't understand. This is practically verbatim what I told him one night as we were reading stories in bed. Naturally, Mitchell countered with something he no doubt got from his parents: "God made everything." To which Jackson responded with a hearty "Nu-uh," and Mitchell countered with an equally fervent, "He did so,"and then the disagreement devolved into a relentless exchange of monosyallables that no doubt nicely punctuated their brisk game of tetherball. That's how Jackson tells it, anyhow.
After he told me about his exchange with Mitchell I said, "Well, for a while there you were telling people that you believed in Science. How do they react to that?"
"Okay," he said, "but you know, from now on I'm just going to tell them that I believe in Art."
54 Comments:
I love that answer! I believe in Art too, Jackson.
Jackson would get along great with my son (also 5). When at church with his aunt, he announced loudly to the conservative Baptist congregation, "Jesus is dead. He is not coming back".
That is so great.
I can forsee my future children having these same problems when they're in school.
man, that's awesome. i have been avoiding the "God talk" like nobody's business. ugh. i just might have to steal your explanation!
"We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further." —Richard Dawkins
I love your kid. I'm looking forward to this kind of thing when mine is a little older. She just turned three and is unaware of religion/atheism. But I do read that one Mother Goose poem to her as follows:
I see the moon and the moon sees me.
Dog bless the moon and dog bless me.
Our middle kid believes in God even though we've expressed our doubts about the whole thing. I admire his independence and strength of conviction amidst our otherwise heathen household.
Also, I think it's interesting that people are predisposed to believe in this or that from an early age. We've given all our kids the same religion talk, and they've all reacted quite differently. Our oldest is with us on the agnosticism tip, I've already mentioned our middle kid's position, and our youngest is still a bit young (3 1/2) to understand. Plus his older brother farted in the middle of one of these talks and he fell over laughing.
I'm filing this all mentally for when my now 3 1/2 yo needs "the talk".
Since my MIL died, I've insisted on a "sometimes people get so sick they die, which means they just stop existing" approach. So far it hasn't proved too difficult to understand for my son.
I think we've had one moment where I mentioned that some people believe in a thing called god and they all go to church on sunday, but he didn't much care so I didn't get into it much.
Brilliant!
Good boy! There's hope for the future of humanity yet!
My mom (or aunt - I was really little) once told me that Jesus was in everything, and I looked at the phone and thought that it must be really uncomfortable. So, of course I asked "even the phone?" and she responded with "Yes dear, even the phone." (Must've been my aunt, my mom doesn't talk that way.)
While my parents aren't strongly religious, some of my other relatives went to the extreme and often told me about god and his stories when they were around.
I never could quite get my head around it (although I liked the thought of god peeing on everyone when it rained) and am "currently without dog".
We have SO been there, with our oldest. Christopher does not put up with such nonsense, and is quite the oddball since we live in a very Catholic-centered area.
I think art is a wonderful thing to believe in.
Jackson's pretty smart for such a little kid, isn't he? I wonder how long it will be until he realizes that art and science are so alike they're almost the same thing. I wonder if he already knows.
Ha! How very John Lennon of him!
However, if he really wants to get them going, he should say Art is the long lost black 13th apostle, a la Chris Rock in Dogma...
We take the kids to Mass weekly, and our oldest is currently wondering if Moses ever existed. (Oddly his faith in Santa Claus is intact.) It doesn't bother me, and what could I do if it did? If I can teach him what faith is and isn't, and what science is and isn't, he will see God for himself.
But I'm sorry to disagree with you, Ms. Kennedy, but reasonable people have known since Homer that religion is useless as a handy explanation for the unexplained. So that's probably not what they've had in mind.
Oh, but we are surrounded by so many unreasonable people.
You have a very smart kid. I believe in Art, too.
So is this in response to other kids talking about God, or is Jackson independently volunteering?
I have mixed feelings about this. I'm glad to hear that you intervened when he was telling people that God was "stupid".
*shrug*
I'm one of those who believes in both science and the existance of a higher power - I majored in biology and chemistry, and I find great comfort in my faith.
I don't consider myself 'unreasonable' - quite the contrary. I hope that I show respect for others' beliefs and lifestyles, though, asked about my beliefs. If my children grow up and choose not to believe, then I would expect nothing less from them.
While I agree that much idiocy is tossed about in the name of one faith or the other, I also feel that much good is done by faith-based organizations. Surely, they can't all be morons?
MontanaJen
Love it. When I was in 2nd grade, I got in a huge argument with my best friend who informed me that there was no such thing as Santa. I argued that yes there was, for I had seen him on THE NEWS.
Yes! Believe in Art!
Of course, my father in law is Art and I don't really believe in him.
A friend of mine was trying to explain God and church to her two sons, 6 and 4, before their God fearin' Grandpa came to pick them up for the weekend.
After the mini lecture on the different views people have about religion, the youngest proclaimed, "I believe in God AND candy!"
It is the best God sales-pitch I've heard yet.
Kids are SO amazing. I agree with MontanaJen. I am not a theist...don't go in for the whole Judeo-Christian concept of God. But I am deeply spiritual and definitely believe in stuff science cannot yet and probably will never be able to explain wholly. Quantum physics is coming very close.
I was brought up without religion and remember arguing with my little friends like that. Our argument went like this: God is a man. No, God is neither a woman nor a man. Yes, my daddy says God is a HE. NO... and so forth. K
Jackson for President!
My middle son told all the kids in preschool that there was no Santa. Secretly I was glad, as a Jew from NY, where you locked your door to throw away the trash, I find the whole notion of a fat guy slipping down the chimney more than just a little bit creepy.
I believe in Art too.
Ha! I love it. Yay for Jackson!
When I was a kid my younger brother came back from (a church) school one day deeply distressed. It took my parents hours to get out of him what was wrong, and it turned out he had had a stomach ache and told the teacher, whereupon this evangelical nutjob crackpot had told him that he must have done something bad so that god was angry with him and given him a stomach ache as punishment. Poor kid had been racking his brains trying to think what it was he'd done, and concluding that he was a generally bad person. My parents complained to the head teacher, who backed up the teacher's behaviour. My parents yanked us from that school the next day, and we had some time off while my parents sorted out getting us into another school.
"I believe in Art" would have been such a great response to have had at our disposal when the god squad came calling.
my 9yo told a good friend of ours who is quite religious, "Personally I think the Roman gods were a more realistic idea."
I knew that I liked Jackson.
Okay, so who is Art's mother? MoMA? Ba-dom-dom. Ahh...get it? "MoMA"? Sorry. Bad joke.
As an atheist mother of a 15 month old, I am heartened to hear that I am not alone. Many of my friends are recent parents, but they all have at least a Unitarian Church to call their own. Our families are really struggling with our unbaptized child, at times, and it's just good to be reminded our daughter won't be alone on the playground (or in hell, as the case may be).
I believe in art. I believe in science.
And I believe God made them both.
Take THAT! Hahahahah!
Your blog made me very sad, however I think pioneer woman's response is exactly right for me, too, "I believe in art, I believe in science. And I believe God made them both." Without God, how can you have hope?
The drive-by christians made me very sad. Without a sense of humor and tolerance for other people's beliefs, how can you have hope that they will STFU?
Hope is easy, it all depends on what you're hoping for.
I promise I am not trying to be argumentative, and I know nothing I say would change your views, but how can you look at that little boy and not believe in a higher power?
Everyone (Christians, too) make mistakes. And while I don't feel responsible for them, I do wish some believers in God didn't mis-construe the true teachings of Jesus.
That being said, we all have the ability to believe as we choose, and shouldn't be brow-beat into anything. Just have an open heart, and I think the truth will find you.
I do have a problem with parents who let (and sometimes encourage) their children to undermine other childrens' faith. For those with an agenda, it's not fair to bring kids into it.
DISCLAIMER: My "take that hahahah" thing was me just bein' silly. I'm sure you knew that, as silly is my thing after all.
I do believe in God, but it doesn't mean I don't enjoy everything about you just because you don't.
I heart fussy.org.
Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. What day is it?
I've avoided this conversation with my almost-five-year-old so far. When he asks, I'll probably do the same thing I did when he asked what happens when we die. I'll tell him that I don't know, but here are some options that other people believe, and let him draw his own conclusions.
I am strongly opposed to indoctrinating children. To pass on the belief that one thing is "Truth" and everything else ISN'T (that goes for God's existence or non-existence) closes their minds and hobbles their ability/willingness to question.
Even though I personally do not believe in God, it's a larger question than I am willing to answer for another person. (And even if I thought I could, I wouldn't.) I don't believe that either science or religion have made an iron-clad case so far, either. Let's face it: they're both often mistaken.
When it's time for the talk, I think my focus will be on respecting the beliefs of others, keeping his mind open to the opinions of both science and religion, and then deciding for himself what he believes.
By the way, love your Google ads right now:
Infant Gas Symptoms
Gas Station Signs
Car Wax
Total Union With God
Maybe it's just that easy!
Sasha, I think you're right on the money.
I was just like your Jackson when I was in school. I'm 24 now so luckily it's been easier to find like-minded people lately. But when I was in 1st grade or so and told kids I don't believe in God (I can't remember if I just mentioned it on my own or if someone else was talking about), they said I'd go to hell and I was a bad person. I normally get my feelings hurt quickly but it didn't bother me at all. I don't think I knew what hell was!
Uh-oh. This can only mean that in his rebellious teenage years Jackson's gonna scare you with threats of joining a religious cult. Or worse -the Young Republicans. [Parenting is like that sometimes...]
As I've said in Julia Sweeney's comments (atheists, you'll love her blog - juliasweeney.blogspot.com/ ), I'm an atheist/cultural Jew, and I will believe in Santa Claus until the day I die. He left a bootprint on my fireplace when I was a child, and I have faith that that sooty bootprint was left by no one but Santa.
Hey, I was going to mention her! I didn't know she had a blog, thanks for the tip.
How very astute for Five.
My Ten and my Six tell their friends all about reincarnation.
I guess kids really do say the darndest things. Heh! I crack me up.
Thanks for having the nerve to put this out there. I'm still in the atheist closet with most everyone, and you and your readers have some good insights.
I can't remember what book I read it in, but it said that some people need more hands on time with god than others. I think that describes it for me. I think he's there, I think he made the sciences and medicines and such, but I don't need the hands on, daily directions. He made my brain, and expects me to use it. Or at least, that's what I'm going with.
You know what really pisses me off?? "Atheists" with Christmas trees. What is your Christmas about if not the birth of Christ? The birth of Hallmark?? So wrong.
Hey, Jennifer, I think you should join your friends at the Unitarian church. Well, at a Unitarian Universalist church anyway! I was raised UU and have recently returned. It's the only place I've found to really connect with my community, "spiritually", or at least from the heart, without worrying about my agnostic leanings. I'm not trying to convert here, just thought I'd mention.
One other thing that was familiar about your post was the question of baptism. Are you planning on having more children? My grandparents actually threatened to kidnap my older brother if he wasn't baptized. So, he's "saved" and I'm not...who cares about the girl anyway?
Lacy, Christmas trees are just *trees*, they're not crucifixes or anything, so they can stand for whatever people want them to stand for - in my case, a Xmas tree is about having something in the house that smells good, looks pretty, and has presents underneath it. In fact, from Wikipedia: With likely origins in European pre-Christian pagan cultures, the Christmas tree has gained an extensive history and become a common sight during the winter season in numerous cultures. - so why do *you* have a tree?
Frankly, I think the birth of Hallmark is a lovely thing to celebrate. Greetings to friends and loved ones around the world with just a small piece of paper in an envelope - it's always joyful. Perhaps you ought to put Christ back into your own personal Christmas and make it about religion, without gifts for the children or anything fun. Me, I'm an atheist Jew, and I'm gonna get me a tree, plus I already have one of those cool cheesy little fiber optic trees with rotating lights. I also have a menorah, two gingerbread girls (we're lesbians) for outside, and we're getting a lit up signpost with directions to the North Pole.
So, to be honest, my Christmas/Hanukkah is about giving gifts to friends and family members; having a nice dinner with them on Xmas Eve; Frosty the Snowman, Rudolph, Charlie Brown, A Christmas Story marathon; and as always, my mom making spaetzle.
This all comes at a coincidental time for me. Lilli's dedication is on Sunday the 17th. Her dedication is more of a promise that I make to her and to God to, while NOT pushing her one way or the other, raise her in a loving environment (which to me is the same as Christian), and try to answer whatever questions she has about God or steer her to others who may be more help.
My parents had my sister and I dedicated as babies as well, and were also very open to us exploring other ways to develop our relationship with a higher power. I am eternally grateful for that, and I hope to give my children the same.
I just have a question, what makes pushing athiesm on your children any differant then pushing any other type of religion.
I think we're talking about teaching, not pushing. Or, at least, I am.
Belief, as I was taught it, was just a sort of letting go, and very passive; so ultimately skepticism came to represent active questioning and taking responsibility for my life.
I'm sure someone else could end up in the same place in the exact opposite (i.e. seeing faith as active and skepticism as passive) way.
thanks for the clarification.
One word of advice (or assvice): watch out for the reactions of the adults in your son's life. I was raised an atheist, and remember well that my youthful declarations of the absence of g-d were more vitriolically received by some of the elders in my life -- including a teacher who actively encouraged my classmates to ridicule me for believing that we descend from monkeys. Yes, this was 30+ years ago, but it strikes me that we might be in a less religiously tolerant place now than we were in the 70s.
My take-away as an adult is that I'd want to be able to counter whatever some righteous adult might rain down upon my kid... I don't recall if I proactively told my parents about this at the time. FYI, it didn't stop me from being an outspoken kid, I'm just still shocked that it happened.
2 questions: Is it true that religious Jewish parents are more upset when their children become Christians than when they become atheists?
Also, if Santa Claus (or Father Christmas or Saint Nicholas) isn't real, then why does the name exist?
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